History Vault: My X11 Port to MS-DOS

Many readers are unaware that CADDIT also participates in various splinter OSD projects. One of those is PythonD, a complete port of the python scripting language to the 32-bit DJGPP development platform for DOS. Another of these projects was a (yet another) failed attempt to port a functional X11 GUI framework to the same environment. A pasted IRC chat from the defunct #djgpp channel tells the story:

[bdeck2] The original plan ages ago was to port tkinter
[bdeck2] that meant whiping away the coderot from the DJGPP X11 port
[bdeck2] The mouse IO no longer worked because things moved on to GRX2
[bdeck2] The DJGPP X11 port was still based on GRX1 IO using the old DJGPP V1 IO queue
[bdeck2] The guy doing Kaffe-PC updated the mouse driver for GRX2
[bdeck2] it took me ages to find his shim
[bdeck2] The Port includes a version of the FVWM windowing manager
[RadSurfer] Ok.
[bdeck2] I was able to finally compile tk-wish
[bdeck2] wish.exe running in DOS
[bdeck2] without requiring some third-party app like desqviewx or something
[bdeck2] but I ran into another snag
[bdeck2] I realized that I would have to write custom DJGPP-FVWM wrappers around the window applets.
[bdeck2] I realized that I would have to completely re-write the tcl-terminal from scratch to use a graphical-pseudo-terminal that co-dispayed inside the GRX session with the applet
[bdeck2] or invent a hotkey that toggled between the two with some degree of stability
[bdeck2] I realized my X11 port was hardly a port at all
[bdeck2] but new software
[bdeck2] that nobody, including me, could use
[bdeck2] so that's the story
[bdeck2] k
[RadSurfer] If others picked up and worked with it...I wonder...
[bdeck2] I brought it up once on the newsgroup
[bdeck2] nobody had any real time to make a further go of it.
[Blairguy] so did the fvwm port somewhat work?
[bdeck2] yeah
[Blairguy] could it actually display the graphics on DOS?
[bdeck2] worked good
[bdeck2] I have a hello world demo somewhere...
[RadSurfer] could have interesting applications.
[bdeck2] yeah... if someone wants to play... this would be a fun toy I suppose
[RadSurfer] be really cool if it got itself worked directly into a DOS-OS kernel [hint]
[bdeck2] I'm not sure what you propose...
[Blairguy] dare I ask how big the exe was?
[bdeck2] uhh... about 400K or so I think ... somehow
[Blairguy] wow
[Blairguy] that's pretty tiny
[RadSurfer] A graphic "dos" (ie. 32-bit console) environment. Cool.
[Blairguy] well, if you want that then you can use SEAL2 or OzoneGUI
[Blairguy] or GEM for that matter
[bdeck2] uh RadSurfer...
[RadSurfer] I'm not as advanced as you two...
[bdeck2] there is no console support
[Blairguy] GEM is a 16-bit DOS GUI that has lots of progs written for it
[bdeck2] that was the problem I was trying to describe
[Blairguy] but it's single-tasking
[RadSurfer] it need only display a terminal (ie. console) box.
[RadSurfer] single-thread.
[RadSurfer] hmmm...
[bdeck2] Someone has to write it
[bdeck2] ergo my tkwish port
[RadSurfer] anyways, I wonder if windows got its start like this?
[Blairguy] why not just XTerm?
[RadSurfer] windows 3.11, lol
[bdeck2] I looked at xterm sources
[Blairguy] or rxvt?
[Blairguy] and?
[bdeck2] couldn't find any simple enough to port just using fvwm and djgpp functionality. They were all multitasking socket oriented terminals.
[Blairguy] oic
[bdeck2] for real-unix
[Blairguy] hmm
[bdeck2] see in unix
[Blairguy] a port of GNOME would be cool :-)
[bdeck2] the terminal provides a text environment for a shell
[Blairguy] but that's simply the point where it would stop being DOS and start being UNIX
[bdeck2] the shell is called in a fork and signalled remotely using ... drum roll... the X11 UNIX socket layer!
[Blairguy] so what about WATT-32 for the socket layer?
[bdeck2] yeeessh
[bdeck2] missing the point here
[bdeck2] my DJGPP-X11 is *NOT* a client-server app
[bdeck2] there is NO SOCKET to connect to
[Blairguy] oh :-)
[bdeck2] it is, for arguments sake, a DOS windowing environemnt that very much looks like the old days of sunOS 1.x
[bdeck2] but under the hood, it is *anything* but X11
[bdeck2] the headers are the same
[bdeck2] there is a libX11, libfvwm, etc
[Blairguy] so have you done any other exotic ports?
[bdeck2] but the true client-server multitasking window-manager you think of with X11 simply isn't there.
[Blairguy] ic
[bdeck2] sort of defeats the purpose
[bdeck2] Now
[bdeck2] on the other hand
[bdeck2] itt could prove useful... if tweaked a bit.. for something like the X11 ghostscript driver
[bdeck2] which I fooled with once, go as far as having a white screen up, but that is as far as that went
[Blairguy] cool
[Blairguy] that'd be great
[bdeck2] not cool
[bdeck2] it wasted time
[Blairguy] oh
[Blairguy] well, if it worked it'd be great
[bdeck2] hey ANYTHING is possible if you are prepared to sacrifice time for it
[bdeck2] of all the pythond users
[bdeck2] only one casually requested tkinter
[bdeck2] I killed the project and archived my X11 stuff, scared someone might ask me to support it
[RadSurfer] might prove useful someday.
[bdeck2] real pythond *users* just want basic python shell scripting and socket functionality in DOS
[RadSurfer] you certainly learned alot working on it.
[RadSurfer] I rather like IDLE myself.
[bdeck2] a few play with the OpenGl stuff I went as far as releasing
[RadSurfer] it makes recalling previous lines easier.
[bdeck2] but I never get new demos, contributions to the code, or even comments
[RadSurfer] pythonwin, if you want win32 extensions and debugging.
[RadSurfer] actually... if the lines were number of something, you;d think we could recall previous lines or somehow
[bdeck2] those gooey environments are good for learning anyway
[RadSurfer] thats my only pet peeve with dos
[bdeck2] PythonD is just a basic python port that works(for the most part) in DOS
[RadSurfer] installing a tsr scroll-back buffer with copy/paste, is handy :)
[bdeck2] please no more TSRs
[bdeck2] my users already need LFN
[RadSurfer] whether or not thats compatible with pythond, I have not tested.
[bdeck2] Packet
[bdeck2] maybe something else
[bdeck2] mouse?
[bdeck2] video
[RadSurfer] video?
[bdeck2] and their own CDrom stuff
[RadSurfer] plot-graphics... like scipy ?
[bdeck2] they might have some specioal DOS video driver
[bdeck2] I was just thinking about TSRs
[RadSurfer] python with its own scroll-back buffer and recall would be nice.
[bdeck2] someone once suggested a /dev/random TSR available for DOS to improve the security in my GPG port
[bdeck2] I refuse to make these packages deppendent on more TSRs than absolutely neccessary
[RadSurfer] of course.
[bdeck2] TSR-hell was worse than DLL-hell
[RadSurfer] but if it were built-in... since the djgpp port is already kinda unique.
[bdeck2] I guess that could be done. Want to do it?
[RadSurfer] Oh! I got it!
[RadSurfer] I love swig. I use Swig with Python 2.3, and 2.4
[RadSurfer] how about a DJGPP port of Swig !!
[bdeck2] already did it
[RadSurfer] where?
[RadSurfer] gimme! GIMME!
[bdeck2] I don't support it
[bdeck2] I just use it
[RadSurfer] ok. fine. GIMME!
[RadSurfer] :-)
[bdeck2] terms of GPL ARE:
[bdeck2] must release source with binary release of any port
[RadSurfer] THAT I would test and get back to you on.
[bdeck2] just too much hassel
[RadSurfer] I'll except the binary.
[RadSurfer] Let me test it a litt.e
[RadSurfer] s/litt.e/little
[bdeck2] I already use it a lot
[bdeck2] I know it works
[RadSurfer] How..do..I..get..it.
[Blairguy] [mcericicq] how about just using reactos or linux?
[RadSurfer] which version of Swig is this based on ?
[bdeck2] SWIG Version 1.3.21
[bdeck2] Copyright (c) 1995-1998
[bdeck2] University of Utah and the Regents of the University of California
[bdeck2] Copyright (c) 1998-2003
[bdeck2] University of Chicago
[bdeck2] Compiled with gpp.exe [i686-pc-msdosdjgpp]
[RadSurfer] I'm using the latest version with python.org's 2.3, 2.4.2
[RadSurfer] sounds about right.
[Blairguy] hey ben
[RadSurfer] How big is the Binary?
[bdeck2] grrrrr....
[bdeck2] www.swig.org
[Blairguy] is pythond optimized for just 386?
[bdeck2] oh
[bdeck2] hmmmmm
[bdeck2] yeah
[bdeck2] think so
[Blairguy] that's good
[Blairguy] I have a 386
[RadSurfer] did you have to tweak it to work with PythonD ? swig source
[bdeck2] I modified the stack space to 2Meg using stubedit
[bdeck2] pythond
[bdeck2] I mean
[bdeck2] No not really
[bdeck2] maybe incidentals but porting swig isn't rocket science
[RadSurfer] if u say so.
[bdeck2] just make sure the os stuff is right... directory and path deliminators
[bdeck2] autoconf
[bdeck2] configure
[bdeck2] make
[bdeck2] make install
[bdeck2] ;-)
[RadSurfer] ok.
[Blairguy] any other interesting DJGPP ports?
[bdeck2] Some black-porting-magic: I use the following configure command line if it helps:
[RadSurfer] I may be getting busy around here, and not able to check in as often as I'd like.
[bdeck2] ./configure msdos-i386 --with-static --disable-shared --program-suffix=.exe --prefix=/dev/env/DJDIR --without-pic --bindir=/dev/env/DJDIR/bin --datadir=/dev/env/DJDIR/ --includedir=/dev/env/DJDIR/include --mandir=/dev/env/DJDIR/man --infodir=/dev/env/DJDIR/info --sysconfdir=/dev/env/DJDIR/etc --enable-networking --with-history --with-spooldir=/dev/env/DJDIR/var --disable-libtool-lock --with-pid-dir=/dev/env/DJDIR/var --with-cxx=gpp --with-exec-sh
[bdeck2] ell=bash.exe --disable-largefile --disable-gcc-pipe --enable-tcap-names --without-debug --with-fallbacks=ansi,ansi.sys,ansi80x30,dumb,wyse350,xterm,crt,gnome,vt200,cygwin,djgpp,djgpp204 --without-ada --program-suffix=.exe --without-x --enable-getcap --enable-termcap --enable-warnings --with-termpath=/dev/env/DJDIR/etc/termcap --with-md5-passwords --with-pid-dir=/dev/env/DJDIR/varq --disable-dev-random --disable-shared-handles --disable-dependenc
[bdeck2] y-tracking --disable-libtool-lock --disable-nls --disable-dependency-tracking --disable-largfile
[Blairguy] wow
[Blairguy] command.com couldn't handle that ever :-)
[RadSurfer] hehe
[bdeck2] the djgpp guys weren't as enthused
[RadSurfer] thats why god creates make files ;-)
[bdeck2] some fealt that some of the arguments were unecessary
[bdeck2] one longtimer said ./configure should be enough
[Blairguy] I personally use:
[bdeck2] the configure script should be ported if it didn't
[bdeck2] like hell!
[Blairguy] ./configure --prefix=/dev/env/DJDIR --disable-nls --disable-dependency-tracking
[Blairguy] and sometimes with:
[bdeck2] I will not port every darn configure script that assumes I should have a /var or dynamic gcc linking
[Blairguy] --host=i386-pc-msdosdjgpp --target=i386-pc-msdosdjgpp --build=i386-pc-msdosdjgpp
[bdeck2] yeah
[Blairguy] btw, how did you port ncurses?
[Blairguy] I had a lot of difficulty getting that to compile, and when it finally did, I got linking errors trying to link a prog with it
[bdeck2] http://dickey.his.com/ncurses/
[Blairguy] the ./configure script never really worked for me
[bdeck2] yeah
[bdeck2] I had to tweak the makefile
[bdeck2] that one takes a bit of patience
[Blairguy] I'm not great with makefiles
[Blairguy] or with configure scripts
[bdeck2] but it's worth it
[Blairguy] can you please send me a source tree?
[bdeck2] I didn't keep it.
[bdeck2] I just have 5.4 binaries


By the way, for those interested in antiquities, the results of this and related work are kept on sourceforge as part of the uDOS project.

CADDIT Marketing Receives Praise from a Competitor

We don't normally do this. But I had to laugh when I saw the newest content ad from ailing Chinese IntelliCAD vendor, ZWCAD. Maybe because they targeted a market outside Australia, they thought we wouldn't see it here in Sydney?

Some background: CADDIT Asia-Pacific has been successfully raising awareness about a robust, low-cost AutoCAD Clone Software called progeCAD. One of the messages they have been doing this with for several months now is a paid image ad. This is our ad in question:

They say that imitation is the greatest flattery? Well, here is the new ad from Chinese competitor ZWCAD (RM stands for Malaysian Ringgit, btw):

We first saw this ad at http://www.neofame.com.my/store291007/index.php . It looks like movies, software and patents aren't the the only thing the Chinese like to pirate :). Judge for yourself.

progeCAD 8.0.18 Free IntelliCAD Upgrade for Current progeCAD 2008 Customers

progeCAD 2008 8.0.18 IntelliCAD has been released. This is a free upgrade for all current progeCAD 2008 customers. progeCAD Professional users can upgrade online simply by clicking "Help -> Check Update" from the progeCAD menu bar. progeCAD Standard and progeCAD Smart! will also be upgraded soon.

New features and fixes in 8.0.18
General features and fixes
TEXT: Dwgcodepage will be automatically set to syscodepage in new drawings in order to handle different charsets (cyrillic, greek, chinese, etc)
TEXT: "Open this dialog when the drawing and system code differs" option has been fixed in the CODEPAGE dialog
TEXT: Fixed text alignement in right to left languages
TEXT: Fixed MTEXT dialog issue with very small text size
DIMENSION: Fixed prefix/suffix direct change in dimensions
DIMENSION: Fixed text direction after a dimension mirroring
DIMENSION: Fixed crash on angular dimension mirroring command
DRAW: Fixed Proxy AEC support in drawings
DRAW: Fixed opening problem with some files having anonymous blocks in them
DRAW: No more progeCAD crashes with close zoom in viewports inside the paper space with hidden lines
DRAW: Fixed opening by double clicking dwg files (problem related to just a few systems)
DRAW: Fixed NONE temporary snap issue
DRAW: Rotate now works even with ANGBASE and ANGDIR different from default
COMMANDS: Added -block command from command line
COMMANDS: Fixed crash with some "Multiple copy" command options
COMMANDS: Fixed ATTDEF command options
IMAGES: Incremented the available memory for images insertion, avoiding so some progeCAD 2008 crash
IMAGES: Added the georeference automatic management for ECW images
DISPLAY: Fixed real time Zoom and Pan commands in paper space
DISPLAY: Fixed viewport diplay problem with hidden lines and ucs that differs from the global one
DISPLAY: Fixed a display problem with some drawings having viewports in paper space
PERFORMANCES: Improved saving performances of dwg files
PERFORMANCES: Improvement in selection/deselection in blocks with attributes
PERFORMANCES: Fixed the Esnap selection problem in drawings having Xref or Blocks with a lot of entities (the mouse slowed down)
PERFORMANCES: Memory improvement in saving operations
PERFORMANCES: Little SNAP steps cause no more problems
PERFORMANCES: Fixed opening issue in a few situations with files having Proxy entities
PERFORMANCES: Speeded up work on drawings with not available inserted images. No more persisent error messages at command line.
MENU: Fixed Draw->Surfaces->3D Face menu item
MENU: The maximum number of menu items now is 8000 (before it was 3000)
ALE : "Back to ALE after insert" option now works correctly
INSTALLATION: No more error message while installing with the NOPDF option if the user privileges are low
REGISTRATION: Fixed USB key registration

A complete trial verion for progeCAD can be downloaded from CADDIT or purchased online.

progeCAM CNC Software for progeSOFT IntelliCAD

Machinists and designers alike will be interested in this affordable, scalable solution for mechanical design, drafting and CNC machining. progeCAM will be sold in two flavours:

• progeCAM Basic: Will be sold worldwide. Bundles the "Professional Version" of the world's favorite IntelliCAD (statistically speaking) with the well-know PartMaster from Dolphin (Level 1).
• progeCAM Professional: Will be sold and supported only in Australia, New Zealand and surrounding region. Bundles progeCAD Professional with the buyers choice of professional machinists multi-axis CNC/DNC milling, lathe turning or wire EDM.

progeCAM offers the economical "best of both worlds" to mechanical engineers: progeCAD's robust AutoCAD-like drafting framework with PartMaster industrial-strength CNC machinining software. progeCAM is sold and supported exclusively by CADDIT.net and their authorized resellers. Read the entire press release on CADDIT Australia.Australia.

For complete CAD CAM CAE industry updates from CADDIT, continue on to our primary Blog. Important major announcements and release information for progeSOFT progeCAD will be posted here.